Curse

Accolon Pendragon · Jun 09, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

No opinion is really alike and you can't please everybody.

One thing is for sure; they are really keeping their promise of a game that rewards real skill over hours played and hoarding of items, powers and gold. The developers said so time and again ever since the beginning so if the game is not fun anymore because you can't or is not worth to do any of that to an effective end any longer, that's your own fault for ignoring the developer's interviews or even the information included on the game box because this clearly is not the kind of game you would enjoy.

Skill is not obliterating every other aspect of your life just so you have it all, you capture it all and you unlock it all. Skill is not doing 17 Infusion runs just so you can have your head gear and all of your 4 sets of 15k armors that you bought after a 1000 hours of grinding infused. Skill is not having 100000000000 experience points since XP is fairly easy to come by in this game. Skill most definitely is not farming because if anything, that only means that either you have or you found a way to have time enough to spend killing 1000000000000 monsters that you already knew you would kill to begin with.

If anyone thinks that that is fun, that's fine by me but that is not skill at all. In this game, skill is to be able to tweak your character in a way that will allow you to finish a mission in PvE or be more effective in PvP. Skill is also to be a competent player regardless of anything else.

As some few examples, skill is finally being able to survive as a Monk in PvP even though you know that there will be 2-3 characters (if not more) coming after you because you came up with the right set of skills and equipment. Skill is managing to kill your opponents and being able to protect your party members as a warrior. Skill is knowing when and even if you should use your skills at a given circumstance. Skill is being able to improvise even though you didn't plan on bringing a skill you need. Skill is being able to make do with the skills and equipment you have because you had not time to spend capturing all the elite skills available to your profession and unlocking any uber equipment.

Those are only a few examples and forgive me if I didn’t mention the other professions.

This is my view and I am sticking to it. People can complain about my post all they like but the more someone complains, the more I think that this person didn't understand what this game is really all about when you went to the retailer.

And in case anyone is still wondering, let me say it. Yes, I like the changes in general.

P.S. 4000xp is not the most you can get as a reward. If I am not mistaken, you can get 5000xp and 15 attribute points for that Heroes Quest you get at Droknar's Forge (I think this is the name of that place) and that quest is not half as hard and half as long as Villainy.

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I'm dumber for not going through the 'grind'....I would have greatly benefitted from doing the research myself. Yes I accomplished something in that the program worked...and I got to spend a few more hours smoking dope with my friends. But I wouldn't release it..or condone its usage. It's take away from the most basic aspect of schooling....learning how to work.

Its people like you who help humanity by "smoking dope" and being lazy. I could care less about someone who had the patience to scan hundreds of files and produced the same results a mindless program did. If he did it for fun, its great. If he tried to be efficient: He is a failure at life, and someone who is holding humanity back. He may be - unlike you - rich though, because he has rich parents

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

They didn't axe farming because people were using bots... They did it because it's a worthless time sink whether you're botting or not and it has no place in anything that presumes to be a game.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

They didn't axe farming because people were using bots... They did it because it's a worthless time sink whether you're botting or not and it has no place in anything that presumes to be a game.

I think when you create a new character they should give you a Max dmg weapon and a superior rune....it'll make the game easier

DarrenJasper · Jun 09, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I think when you create a new character they should give you a Max dmg weapon and a superior rune....it'll make the game easier

How about just unlocking them for PvP characters to begin with...

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the term 'smart' is relative...and in this case we're talking about computer gaming/programming....if the hacker thinks of it before the company does...yes the hacker is smarter.

this all boils down very very simply.

Basketball Player "Coach...all the time I have to put in to get better at basketball seems like 'grind' and I really don't want to do it...."
Basketball Coach "Well...we'll just make the hoop bigger so it's easier for you to hit those Jump Shots"

-problem solved.

That sums up everything your trying to say.
You claim to be a shining beacon of humanity (you created something that can allow you to spend more time on things you enjoy instead of things you consider painful) and pretend to be ashamed of it.

The problem is, all those "hard working individuals" who hold humanity back arent ashamed of themselves

Maybe one day you will understand that you wont get better if you repeat a painfull task a hundred times. You get better if you find a way around it and make it redundant in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

They didn't axe farming because people were using bots... They did it because it's a worthless time sink whether you're botting or not and it has no place in anything that presumes to be a game.

Exactly. It does not have its place in GW, like fishing has no place in Soccer. That does not mean that fishing or soccer have to be better then each other.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

That sums up everything your trying to say.
You claim to be a shining beackon of humanity (you created something that can allow you to spend more time on things you enjoy instead of things you consider painful) and pretend to be ashamed of it.

The problem is, all those "hard working individuals" who hold humanity back arent ashamed of themselves

Maybe one day you will understand that you wont get better if you repeat a painfull task a hundred times. You get better if you find a way around it and make it redundant in the first place.

I don't pretend to be ashamed of anything....as children we make mistakes...if we don't realize those mistakes didn't benefit us we're going to remain children. Cheating on high school term papers didn't benefit me....it got the work done but it didn't make me any smarter.

I played numerous sports in high school...at varsity levels. and was an All American Football running back....the countless hours of hard work and pain I put into football was worth it....it made me a better player. begging the creators of the game relentlessly to make the game easier isn't going to make you better.....it's just going to make the game easier. Repeating a painfull task a hundred times DOES make you better....that's precisely what practice is.

primal98 · Jun 09, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

You know it seems to me that no matter what changes will come, people will just whine and complain. It is either too much gring, or too little grind, or it is too hard, or too easy, or to w/e. ANet should just have 5 games:

Guild Wars: "The PVP unlocked Edition"
Guild Wars: "The Mass Grind Edition"
Guild Wars: "The 0 grind Edition"
Guild Wars: "The PvE Focused Edition"
Guild Wars: "The Original Edition"

That way we would all be happy.

You know the infusion change, THANK YOU!!!! It took our group 7 runs to get it done... once. And we almost didnt make it O_O 1 successful Run is sufficient.... I honestly dont want to waste a weekend doing 350000 runs... only to do it again later when I get new armor. Please explain to me how... RUNNING makes me better o.O Honestly, I just flipped on the tv, clicked on my ally, and kept hitting space every few seconds... maybe sometimes cast a spell to heal... not much growth there :/

Rune Seller: So? Big deal? We have a dye seller, a materials seller... only natural to have a runes seller? It will help drive prices down

(Why pay X for a rune when the seller sells it for Y.... so the person will have to sell it at less than X

).Plus it is what you unlocked(or so I read... maybe Im wrong), which is great... I've been searching without end for another blood rune

Spending 60000000000 hrs searching for the rune::: Thsi makes you better.... how? I'd rather spend 1/4th of that time in the arena.

Signet of Capture? Ooooo scary.... now anyone who is capable of getting to the boss, killing the boss, and living through it can have the skill :O GOD FORBID ANYONE WITH THE ABILITY TO DO THIS SHOULD HAVE IT!!!!!! We might actually have skilled people who dont have the time to do the Faucet of Darkness 80x until the sig finally appears.... having the sig!!! I like it

I say we all just be quiet, keep playing, and focus on what is important:

-New Locations
-AN AUCTION HALL!!!!!

~prime

ManadartheHealer · Jun 09, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

How about just unlocking them for PvP characters to begin with...

But PvE players like to whine about subjects that really have no impact on them

SOT · Jun 09, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Aahahahahah... 2 weeks ago people were ranting about the grind in the game, now (tnx god a little minority) they rant for the opposite reason. So now they're unmasked...they liked doing the same things over and over and over again. This is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen in netgaming!

Keep up the good work Arenanet.

LMFAO YES!

Accolon Pendragon · Jun 09, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

I say we all just be quiet, keep playing, and focus on what is important:

-New Locations
-AN AUCTION HALL!!!!!

~prime

I like those ideas...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

But PvE players like to whine about subjects that really have no impact on them

I am mainly PvE and I think that if there is the option to create a character for PvP only, why make the people who only wants to play PvP, play PvE? That ony makes for players with a very poor attitude in PvE just because they need to unlock something for what they really want. That's something Í don't understand but nevermind. better not get sarted.

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by primal98

You know it seems to me that no matter what changes will come, people will just whine and complain. It is either too much gring, or too little grind, or it is too hard, or too easy, or to w/e. ANet should just have 5 games:

Guild Wars: "The PVP unlocked Edition"
Guild Wars: "The Mass Grind Edition"
Guild Wars: "The 0 grind Edition"
Guild Wars: "The PvE Focused Edition"
Guild Wars: "The Original Edition"

That way we would all be happy.

You know the infusion change, THANK YOU!!!! It took our group 7 runs to get it done... once. And we almost didnt make it O_O 1 Run is sufficient.... I honestly dont want to waste a weekend doing 350000 runs... only to do it again later when I get new armor. Please explain to me how... RUNNING makes me better o.O Honestly, I just flipped on the tv, clicked on my ally, and kept hitting space every few seconds... maybe sometimes cast a spell to heal... not much growth there :/

Rune Seller: So? Big deal? We have a dye seller, a materials seller... only natural to have a runes seller? It will help drive prices down

(Why pay X for a rune when the seller sells it for Y.... so the person will have to sell it at less than X

).Plus it is what you unlocked(or so I read... maybe Im wrong), which is great... I've been searching without end for another blood rune

Spending 60000000000 hrs searching for the rune::: Thsi makes you better.... how? I'd rather spend 1/4th of that time in the arena.

Signet of Capture? Ooooo scary.... now anyone who is capable of getting to the boss, killing the boss, and living through it can have the skill :O GOD FORBID ANYONE WITH THE ABILITY TO DO THIS SHOULD HAVE IT!!!!!! We might actually have skilled people who dont have the time to do the Faucet of Darkness 80x until the sig finally appears.... having the sig!!! I like it

I say we all just be quiet, keep playing, and focus on what is important:

-New Locations
-AN AUCTION HALL!!!!!

~prime

all they'd really have to do is stop trolling the message forums for people complaining about what they don't like and then immediately fixing it. Fix what's wrong with the game...not what people find the time to complain about. I don't expect the game to change back to the way it was...nor would i have any respect for a company that would do it...I'm just stating my malcontent with what this patch has done to the game.

look at the updates page......they're updating every third day for christ sake. This isn't beta anymore....stop making every effort to make everyone happy. Live Production games should not be updating every third day fixing a bug some jack dick didn't like about the game.

Saerden · Jun 09, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

Cheating on high school term papers didn't benefit me....it got the work done but it didn't make me any smarter.

ROFL.

If you indeed wrote the program, you are smarter then your pathetic teachers, and probably smarter then most humans on earth. You dont need school. Your teachers do need to be thought by you. Our universities dont produce enough of the likes of you. You could do it in school. Now you waste your time to do "research" instead of writing a program that could do the research to cure cancer.

Hard, painful work will make you better doing this work. What are you going to do if someone makes it meaningless? (Your riding from NY to LA on horseback, no?)

Creston · Jun 09, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

is their a time limit on Guild Wars....if you don't finish it in 2 months does it spontaneously combust? does your computer stop working? does the game cease to exist? I have all the same things you do (minus the wife and my daughter is almost 4) I don't mind doing the same missions twice. I don't mind doing them three times....I enjoy being rewarded for getting more skillfull...not for just running through the motions and waiting for the cut scene. I fully understand that if it takes me a year to finish this game...it's still gonna be there when I'm done, and I enjoy having to complete certain things multiple times until I get it done the right way.......you'd think as a software developer you'd understand this.

\applause

I can see how some people who don't have a lot of time like the game getting easier. However, why does that have to come at the expense of those who LIKE to be rewarded for their gameplay? Since I've picked up the game three weeks ago, we've now seen three patches that made things "easier". Rebalanced areas. Lowered a boss monster from lvl 26 to 14 (twice, IIRC).
at this rate, you'll launch GW in two months and it will proclaim YOU ARE TEH WINNER!!111!one!1 and shutdown.

Can we stop with the "making it easier" stuff, please? Most gamers I know enjoy a little challenge every now and then.

Creston

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 09, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I don't pretend to be ashamed of anything....as children we make mistakes...if we don't realize those mistakes didn't benefit us we're going to remain children. Cheating on high school term papers didn't benefit me....it got the work done but it didn't make me any smarter.

I played numerous sports in high school...at varsity levels. and was an All American Football running back....the countless hours of hard work and pain I put into football was worth it....it made me a better player. begging the creators of the game relentlessly to make the game easier isn't going to make you better.....it's just going to make the game easier. Repeating a painfull task a hundred times DOES make you better....that's precisely what practice is.

Alas you may be right, but WHY the HELL would anyone want to be a master of the infusion run??????

The Football comparions doesn't fit, you got good at football, the pitch doesn't change, the game rules are fixed and the majority of stratergies are know, in GW the pitch does change, and so do the rules from area to area. Admittedly you do have to put the hours in to get good, but the hours to get good at PvP have to be spent in PvP not PvE. I know this and I don't even PvP. As for PvE once you know what spawns in an area it is easy to adjust skills then run through it, 1-2 attempts, but re runs of the same area is not going to improve your overall skill, just how good you are at that area.
Actually having you have to change areas and skills and not farm the same areas is more likely to improve your skills.
If its too easy, go out with a smaller party, do the areas before you ascend rather than after (kryta).
The game is supposed to be fun, If you want it harder, play the entire game with Henchmen and have one single rule. If you die delete character as it is dead and start again.

northernlights · Jun 09, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

I love how the OP doesn't have the stones to post again.

See what happens when you make broad statements you can't back up?

Algren Cole · Jun 09, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

ROFL.

If you indeed wrote the program, you are smarter then your pathetic teachers, and probably smarter then most humans on earth. You dont need school. Your teachers do need to be thought by you.

I knew enough about computers and how search engines worked to manipulate them for my usage...that doesn't make me smarter than my teachers...realizing I missed out on a valuable learning experience makes me smarter than I used to be.

Madjik · Jun 09, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

Hmm. Those are the best two theories you can come with for why you don't have to rerun the infusion question five times anymore?

I have a better theory. A lot of people complain just for the sake of complaining, so no matter how good a patch is, no matter how blantantly obvious an improvement is, trolls will complain about it, not because they're genuinely pissed, but simply because they enjoy complaining, saying completely outrageous things and watching people respond to their inane jabber. Throw in a comment about you're quitting the game over it, and how only 12 year olds will keep playing, and you're guarenteed to draw responses, no matter obvious it is that even you can't possibly believe what you're saying.

A legitimate thread discussing what's good and bad about the patch would be nice, but this one was started by an obvious troll trying to solicit flames, and he succeeded.

My gods, people, how can anyone think having to rerun the same mission five times made it harder, rather than simply making it more tedious? How can anyone think fixing that made the game easier?

The answer is, they can't. These people aren't as stupid as they pretend to be. They're just trolls. Please stop feeding them. Thanks.

I've used the report post functon on this thread at least once under that basis. To be honest, im suprised its still open.

EDIT:: actually, it may have been another dengenerated thread, im not sure anymore. It's sad to see 3 or 4 patch threads and watch almost all of them degenerate to baseless trolling and fighting.

Deagol · Jun 09, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Apparently the true competition in the game is not to hold the hall of heroes, not to be at the top of the ladder. It is between PvP only players and Grind-lovers about who can be the most annoying whiners.

Stur · Jun 09, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Grind lovers.... nice, real mature.....

How bout RPG lovers vs. FPS lovers LOL

That’s really what it is, no self respecting RPG lover worth his salt would want everything handed to him, and no self respecting FPS player would expect to have to earn it.